Another Noe Valley pocket listing

…that we’d love to help you purchase:

Stunning remodeled 4 br, 2 ba, 2 decks, garden, huge undeveloped attic, 18 ft. ceilings in kitchen, etc. There is no parking, but architectural plans to expand to 4500+ sq. ft. + 2 car garage are available. Near Noe and 29th.

To the person that contacted us regarding the other Noe pocket listing we posted, our apologies, your email vaporized. Please contact us again.

We welcome emails from principals and agents.

No Greg, this is not our pocket listing, and for those that might be wondering, a pocket listing is a home that is currently not in MLS and therefore not “on the market”.

Either contact us here or thefrontsteps@gmail.com.

[Update: Cat is out of the bag and on Craigslist. Thanks Sophie!]

20 thoughts on “Another Noe Valley pocket listing

  1. I think the pocket listing are a great bonus and hope they keep showing up here. These is nothing wrong with getting the inside jump and in san francisco — everything’s local — even the pocket listings! Just wish there was a little more info disclosed (e.g., price.)

    [Ed note: Sorry, $1.45M]

  2. If it doesn’t have an address or a price – is it a listing? I’d like to offer $500K for the above Noe pocket listing – did I get it?

    For those with MLS access – go look up 139 Peralta and you’ll understand why many of us can’t stand the pocket listing game. Double ended, zero days on market and it sells for 70K over the asking. If it never comes on the MLS – how can you input it into the MLS as an over asking offer — especially when the agent represented both buyer and seller.

  3. I think you’re giving too much credit to the MLS as a lead generation tool for realtors Greg. At the end of the day, I’d prefer to see all listings sold entered into the database so we could have a master record of what is happening in the industry. All too often, places do not get entered or they get entered with a confidential (or mis-stated) sale price and the whole database gets diluted in value. Each State should require the MLS to be populated with Tax Record Perfect information IMO.

    But it’s your job to as a Realtor to find the best property for your client no mater if the property in on MLS or not. Gotta work for it man! :-)

    I bid $501k.

    Actually on $29th street the value starts to go down pretty quick becuase you’re mightily far from the mythical 24th street. Certainly a lot more than 5 blocks as there are a few named (not numbered) streets between the two. $1.5 sounds about right, maybe a bit low if “finished”.

  4. Oh, and 2186 Vallejo hit the MLS today as sold for full price in 1 day. I think this was pocketed for a while and for a higher price — but hey, it sold for full price on MLS. At the end of the day, I don’t really care about if it sold for more or less than full price — that may help or hurt an individual agent (so its expected that it would be a game’d metric), but it doesn’t impact the market price — which is all anyone should really care about anyway.

    [Editor’s note: 2186 Vallejo MLS sheet. Status is pending.]

  5. I would like to see all the sales entered — all or none and if we’re going to use them as data points – we should report the accurate data

  6. I have to agree with James and Eddy and disagree with anybody that thinks MLS is the be all end all. Just take a look at the thousands of units that are being built and not one of those sales or listings is in MLS. What it really comes down to is the wishes of the owner. If I have a client/owner that wants me to casually shop their home “off market” (read: off MLS) then I’ll do it. If the owner wants to FSBO or pocket list a home, it’s up to them. Developers could care less about MLS too. I’d love to see it all under one roof, but that ain’t happening any time soon, because the truth is everyone is thinking about their own bottom line and that only.

    With that said, who has some multi-units they’d like to sell? What about a big home with big views in Pac Heights? “Modern” condos in Pac Heights/Cow Hollow and South Beach too. All of the Infinity corner units are sold out as are all the other “good” units at the other new devs (for my clients anyway). I’m also looking for a nice house/condo around $1.5M in the Lake, Richmond area. How ’bout a “big fixer” in Pac Heights for under $3M?

    Anyone?

  7. this is a great service you are providing alex. i’m in a corner view unit of which their are only 3 or 4 that never turn over here in my building in south beach.

  8. If you are going to be a member of the San Francisco Association of Realtors – you should attempt to abide by the rules / code of conduct which governs the association. You can’t have a faction of the membership decide the MLS isn’t a quality tool or the be all / end all and use it when it’s convenient.

    Pocket list to your hearts content – discount your services, market your property on every 3rd party site, blog and Craigslist – just keep the bullshit data / stats out of the MLS. You also may want to check with the broker of the firm you work for before you decide the MLS is a tool to use when it’s convenient to your sellers. Some of the brokers have worked long and hard to regulate the MLS and a huge portion of our dues goes to Rapatoni in an effort to make the tool a complete database of Bay Area properties.

    I think everyone — agents, buyers, sellers, etc would be pleased if this was a FAIR market and there was a common set of rules / ethics which everyone abides by. Define the rules and the ramifications for not following the rules and then it’s all good. Most are frustrated by the actions of a few who continually break the rules or bend them when it’s convenient and then ask, “What’s wrong – what did I do wrong — Nothing specifically states that is illegal”

    I for one welcome change and am open to an sales environment where the MLS is one of the many marketing tools available to Realtors. I’m not sure I’d shell out my annual and monthly dues to our Association if that’s going to be the environment in which we sell real estate in San Francisco – but that’s another story.

  9. Greg,

    How do you propose getting the new developments to list each and every single unit they have for sale on MLS?

    I totally agree that it should all be under one roof, but it’s not. So how do you fix it?

    I think we’re over-paying for MLS, especially since a lot of the data is “out there” anyway.

    If MLS and the community of Realtors really wanted to clean things up, they should quit “feeding” sites like Zillow, Redfin, Trulia, et al, and even putting sfarmls.com live to the public. Cut it all off and watch MLS become much more of a be all end all. While they’re at it, they should pull the plug on the internet. It’s the only way.

  10. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/rfs/574460645.html

    testing the waters? asking is only 1.4 on cglist.

    I was checking craigslist. and there is a lot if stuff… so much of it not being on MLS that I feel uneasy about those listings.

    I’m finally OK about pocket listings – as long as they are POCKET listings – not “I’m trying to avoid MLS listing for some reason, however, I’m still doing a full blow advertising”. (which is not the case here if the listing agent is not accepting offers yet)

    $1395000 ***COMING SOON! Stunning Remodel 3+ br, 2 ba Single Family

    NOT IN MLS – Beautifully remodeled single family home features: 3+ bedrooms w/optional office or small 4th bedroom, 2 luxurious baths (master bath w/steam room shower and soaking tub), gourmet kitchen with soaring 18′ ceilings and skylights leading to a sunny adjacent deck, storage room, beautiful landscaped garden with another sunny adjacent deck and *HUGE* undeveloped attic. Additionally, there are architectural plans to expand and add to over 4000+ square feet (incl. 2 car garage addition). Plans are currently being reviewed with the City and are under “historical review.”

  11. Developers are game players Alex – no doubt about it. I’ve heard some wild stories – posting “sold” signs on units that are not sold – only putting the full price sales into the MLS, etc. Truth be told, I don’t have an answer to the developer portion – How bout this – How bout new developments are not listed in the MLS – re-sales only. For new developments, they are allowed to list the lowest priced unit for each floor plan in the MLS and they run the show from their on site sales office. As a Realtor, I know the best way to get real time data for a new development is to go to the sales office — and i’m fine with that and I think most are.

    I want to see more regulation of the re-sales. Again – when you have 1 or 2 sellers a year that want to avoid the MLS or “test the market” – so be it. It’s an exception, not the rule. When your company / group / sales team / lists all their property on their own website for 90 days — i mean let’s be honest- it’s to attract the buyer and double end the deal. When Craigslist ad’s appear everyday – you are clearly attempting to sell the house but avoid the MLS exposure. You can’t tell me there’s any goal other than double ending that deal and that’s garbage. Couple that with the same people waiting 90 days and then putting the unit in the MLS as new – or putting it in when it’s already in contract – it just doesn’t create a fair marketplace –

    Example – I take a listing in a condo building. I market the listing on Craigslist and Home-SanFrancisco.com – I get an offer after 80 days. I then put the property in the MLS as pending – shows zero days on the market. This allows me to send a letter to every owner in the condo building – “Sold in 2 weeks / over asking” This is done – constantly and it hurts the Realtor who is playing by the rules and adhering to our SFAR Code of Conduct.

    Tell me this – If you are going to market aggressively on Craigslist and your own website – why wouldn’t you list the property in the MLS? What’s the advantage. Don’t tell me to test the market – the best way to “test the market” is to put the unit in the MLS and expose it to everyone. Don’t tell me it’s the sellers request – again if that happens 2 -3 times a year ok — but when every listing is marketing privately for at least 2 months – it’s obvious the Realtor is advising these actions be taken. End result – you have to be in the inner circle to find out about some of these properties and that in itself creates a disgustingly unfair, unethical marketplace.

    We need a governing body to step in and take control. Play by the rules or leave the Association and create your own set of rules. I have some suggestions – I have some legitimate complaints and I’m hoping to organize them and present them to the MLS committee. I’m all for free access to the MLS. My company is predicated on providing all the real time information we are legally allowed to – we let people search the entire MLS without creating any type of agency relationship. Hell we have other Realtors using our website and we’re fine with that. It’s public info – we all should have access. Pocket listing creates a very dicey situation and in my opinion, done primarily for the benefit of the Realtor, not the seller.

  12. Well stated. What you describe is totally bogus and should be stopped. And you’re right, the occasional true “pocket listing” is not the norm, rather then exception. I’m for free info exchange (obviously), so maybe you and I should head up the MLS committee?

  13. I second Greg on the shady games some developers play. I work in the peninsula market – but we have a huge developer here that is ridiculous. For instance, he built 10 single family homes and released them in units of two for sale. The CEO would have “someone” purchase one home for an over inflated price (sometimes himself as a private individual), and then the real buyer would be pressured into purchasing the other “only home available” for close to what the first home sold for. The poor individuals then realized their price depreciation when one of the shell homes was put on the market and sold for 25% under what is was purchased for only six months before. When one of the real owners then tried to sell their home at what they purchased it only 8 months before, they eventually had to withdraw it, as a 25% loss in under a year is unacceptable for most folks.

  14. this is going to be a really interesting exercise in what the market values for parking in a single family home. i would not buy it, no matter what. sucks to be them, i fear.

  15. Editor – I don’t want to head up any committee — too much of a headache plus I already served as the head of the Tech Expo – so i’ve served my Association! I will however be pinging the MLS committee & Rules and Ethics Committee to see if we can’t clean up some of this bullshit.

    I’d love to see one the agents that pocket list and spam the shit out of Craigslist “harden the F’ Up” and justify their actions on this forum.

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