“Why are Realtors so arrogant and such assholes?”
28 06 2007I can’t believe I am going to print this letter to the Editor, because, well…we’re mostly a community of Realtors bringing this information to you. But, I think there may be something to gain from this little quote if we get some good comments.
“Dear Editor,
I really like your blog and think it is a great resource and nice to see a Realtor trying to do something other than just sell, sell, sell, and cheer the market on. But maybe you can help me answer this question, why are Realtors so arrogant and such assholes? I mean, driving around in the bling, bling cars all the time. Constantly talking on the phone about loans, property features and what they’re worth, clients’ needs, etc., in the most un-private of locations (bathrooms, checkout lines, airports.) Always interupting a good conversation when the phone beeps, vibrates, or rings with “I gotta take this call…” Is it really that important? Why do they think they are so cool? Other professions have their arrogant pricks too (attorneys, doctors, entrepreneurs), but Realtors somehow seem more obnoxious. Maybe it is the easy money you guys make. Or maybe, you all truly are a bunch of assholes. Anyway, just thought you could shed some light on the matter for me.
Thanks,
Justin T.”
I’m hoping we can gain some insight into where the disconnect often lies between Realtor-client, Realtor-public. Why is there such a negative perception placed on Realtors? I hope we can learn things like how we can better serve you during a transaction, rather than just “making easy money” (it’s never easy money by the way). How can we earn our commissions in your eyes? Things we can do during the process of buying/selling your home for you that would make a difference. Things you like to see in our advertising. Things you like at the close of a transaction…that kind of stuff.
By giving you this open forum, I’m hoping you’ll spread the word, link to this post, and give some good feedback. The more the better.
If somebody (Justin T.) feels strongly enough to write us with this question, I’m assuming he/she is not alone. So let ‘er rip!
Sincerely,
Alexander Clark
-Should the full MLS be available to the public? [theFrontSteps]
I’ll kick this off by saying it is not the Realtor that is the a$$hole. It is the person that just so happens to be a Realtor. I know many a dentist, pharmaceutical rep, lawyer, disgruntled cashier, and the list goes on and on that is both arrogant and an a$$hole. So you shouldn’t base your perception of an entire profession off of your experiences with a few individuals. But being a Realtor, I’d like to hear what some others have to say, so I’ll leave it at that.
alex
My take is people think realtors dont deserve the amount of money they are making. In SF, houses go for roughly $800k. Commish on that is roughly $20k. What do they do for the $20k? Write a contract? Send a link from MLS? Drive them to and from a house? What is it? Esp. when the market was hot, most realtors dont give the indiv. attention people want. I think that’s why companies like Redfin will work in the future. I’ve bought 2 houses from different realtors, and both I’ve found on my own. They wrote the contract and made the money.
I do have a good story about a realtor in San Mateo/Hillsborough. When I sold my house, the agent paid for staging, landscaping, printed marketing materials and got me more than asking. He did alot of work and deserved every penny he made!If all agents was like him, I think the perception of realtors will change.
Part of this commentary probably stems from the sheer number of realtors who entered the profession in the last ten years. I don’t have the ratio handy but as volume has dropped in CA, the number of deals per month per licensed agent is down to 1 (or somewhere around there). In other words, there are a lot of “agents” who jumped in just for the money and who are not true professionals. I had a good experience with my agent and I couldn’t have sold my property without her…
All that said, what’s more frustrating is the rampant cheerleaderism. I know that more transactions = realtor-livelihood, but it’s frustrating to see. It starts at the top (e.g. former chief economist David L.) but the truth is, it’s not always a “great time to buy”. It would be refreshing to hear that and it would convince me that a realtor may actually have my best interests at heart.
This blog, for example, likes to showcase huge properties that sell in two weeks and go for “way over asking”. I believe that this happens, but this is not the market of 2 years ago so we should all stop pretending that it is. Plenty of places sit around now for weeks. Plenty of places get pulled off the MLS with zero offers. It’s not all doom and gloom, but balance would be nice.
[Editor's note: We hope to show more of the "Stalefish" in the future, to balance out our reporting. So check back...and thanks for the comments!]
If someone writes a letter to the editor I guess its fair game; but I don’t know about printing his name and last initial…. but I’m not the editor…[Editor's Note: As with many comments/emails we get, the email was justin at timberlake dot com, so we're assuming a fictitious name was used. Unless of course the pop mogul is really reading this blog and not happy with their Realtor, but somehow, we doubt that.
]
Anyway, JT has obviously had a series of bad run-ins and experiences with R.’s and I think Dave hit the nail on the head about the number of people that hit the scene over the past few years. I’ll defer to a related post I made a few days ago that didn’t get any responses (except from the editor, thanks!).
http://thefrontsteps.com/2007/06/26/read-the-disclosures-and-preliminary-title-report/#comments
This pretty much sums up my thoughts on what a R. needs to do to earn their commish.
E.
It’s entirely because of the obscene amounts of money made off of each transaction. Because housing prices are so high here (and by here, I don’t just mean SF, I mean everywhere in the Bay) realtors don’t even need to sell one house per month to be bringing home 200k a year. I also don’t like that competition is ACTIVELY discouraged by realtors - as in, blackballing agencies that may want to charge less. Better service for the same price is great, but if an industry is unwilling to offer lower prices, that smells of monopoly and evokes hatred from the populace - because they feel helpless and exploited.
I think there are two separate issues.
First is the perception that realtors make money hand over fist for doing nothing. Surgeons and lawyers are perceived to make comparable amount of money, but at least the public realizes that it’s difficult job (in case of surgeons anyway), and it requires years and years of education. The realtors have to take what - a couple of tests to get the license?
But that perception is only partially true. The barriers to entry the profession are so low, that the number of realtors is reaching ridiculous levels. There is something like 1 realtor for 50 Californians now. But that means there are fewer sales per agent. The last numbers I saw was something like 1 sale per agent per year. So it’s not easy money, by any means.
Second issue is the trust. There was a public opinion poll not that long ago that showed that realtors are among the least trusted professions, on the same level as used car salesmen. The main reason for that is that it’s pretty clear that the only thing realtors care about is making the commission. That starts from the top level with all the endless cheerleading by David Lereah and others, down to the local agents will always tell you that now is the best time to buy AND sell, and that San Francisco (Fresno, Tulsa, etc.) are unique and will always be doing great.
The anticompetitive practices that NAR is being sued over by the Department of Justice are not helping either (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/realtors3.html). To summarize the lawsuit, you guys have monopolized this field and do anything you can to keep the current commission structure (which is absolutely ridiculous by the way - in the rest of the world it’s way less) at the expense of the consumers. And you have the guts to wonder why these consumers dislike you? LOL.
This is great! Keep it coming. I’m taking notes and hoping a lot of other Realtors read this, and hopefully some will chime in with a little defending here. You guys/gals are making great points. Thanks!
I hope when you (anon 11:03) say “these consumers dislike you”, you are referring to “you” as the Realtors and not me, as the Editor.
alex
I should qualify my comment, alex. I know plenty of nice realtors and some that really do a great job. However, I dislike the structure of the industry because it discourages innovation and real competition.
Chris,
Thanks for clarifying.
alex
JT’s comments are an unfortunate generalization. There are plenty of a-holes in this industry - perhaps more so than others - but I’d venture to say there are a-holes in every industry. I take offense with being called an a-hole — until you meet me. If you meet me and want to call me an a-hole — so be it — until then, ease up and realize no two people are alike.
I disagree that this industry doesn’t promote innovation and competition. In my opinion, it’s the opposite. Being a successful Realtor or Brokerage doesn’t come easy - you have to be innovative - you have to compete on a daily basis for every buyer or listing. The people / companies who are the most innovative, who adapt to the changing market, who present buyers and sellers with more information and tools will be the most successful one’s. Consumers are in control in this industry - they have the right to choose among countless Realtors. In my opinion the industry captures the essence of competition and demands innovation.
Just my two cents — for the record - i think EVERYONE in our country misuses their cell phone — not just us A-Hole Realtors!
Greg,
You are right that the best will rise to the top. However, in an industry where charging less than a certain amount is simply NOT ALLOWED, that eliminates a HUGE incentive for innovation and competition. Price is a huge motivating factor, and in the NAR world, it’s simply off the table. You’re right that consumers can “choose among countless realtors”. But the realtors can’t choose how much they charge and therefore, consumers are lacking an ENORMOUS potential choice. If things were changed, it’s quite likely that some realtors would charge the same amount now and people who determined that it was worth it would pay (and in some instances, it would be worth it). However, there would be some people that decide that they would like to pay thousands less for a slightly (or significantly) lower quality of service.
The current system merely helps the “bad” realtors make FAR more than their service is worth. That’s my problem with it.
Also - the mere fact that EVERY realtor (and the NAR) is vehemently against opening things up to price competition tells me that many of us are paying WAY too much. Would you realtors here be opposed to price competition? And if so, why?
Greg,
Are you saying that realtors by and large (or at least…you) are welcoming Redfin as competition?
Chris - there are companies- RedFin / ZipRealty are two that come to mind, that offer significant discounts on commissions — perhaps they are calling them “rebates” - but they are essentially discount brokerages who have changed the commission structure. It wasn’t too long ago that the typical listing was 6% — the current market dictate 5.5 or 5% commissions — so changes have occurred.
It’s illegal for a Realtor to negotiate sales price based on commission. That said, as a seller, you can interview every Realtor in the city and see if someone will list your property for less than 5%.
My personal stance -charge what you are worth. I’ve done my share of Redfin mystery shopping and formerly was a web designer for ZipRealty. I’ll be tactful - you get what you pay for. No different than flying Southwest — you give up some of the “finer” things for price - so you fly through 3 cities and get stuck in the middle seat for the 9 legs of the flight, but ya pay 70% of the standard fare.
I’m not afraid of the discount brokerage or the potential to changes in the commission structure - it’s not a threat to my business plan as i’m offering a full range of services. Goes back to thinking this is just about putting up a “For Sale” sign and cashing the check. If it was that easy, I’d have retired by now!
There is no doubt that the industry is changing with the advent of so much technology– an intelligent Realtor is one that is positioning himself / herself to be ahead of that change. If the commission structure is altered, how will you compete — what do you offer — are you innovative — are you willing to compete?
Greg,
Fair enough. And I realize that there are discount brokerages - my main problem is with the NAR kicking discounters off of the MLS, as has happened in some places. I certainly wasn’t suggesting negotiating the sales price based on commission - only being allowed to advertise a lower commission without fear of reprisal from the NAR.
Ha — just mentioned that. Bring it on Redfin! I’ve mentioned that I’ve done my share of mystery shopping and have some insight into the “national” discount brokerage world through one of my former jobs.
Fact - the Realtors at Redfin and Zip are focused on the entire Bay Area - check a resume and you’ll quickly see they are “experts” in a variety of cities in the Bay Area. I’m not an expert in any real estate outside of San Francisco.. and to be 100% honest, I wouldn’t call myself in expert in every neighborhood in San Francisco. I don’t know Sea Cliff- - not fluent in District 3 or District 10. If you walked into my office and asked me to help you sell a house in the Bayview - I’d refer you to a colleague that is focused on the Bayview and you’d get the best advice and service out there. That said, there’s no doubt in my mind that a buyer or seller working in my area of expertise has a better chance of having an offer accepted or selling their house for the best price by using my services as opposed to a Realtor who services the “Bay Area.” I’m spending my time focusing on 6 / 7 neighborhoods — not 11 cities within the Bay Area.
I’m not trying to tell you I’m alone in being an “expert” in certain area’s of the city. There are plenty of talented Realtors who know their stuff- - compare any of us to Redfin / Zip. It’s a great test — pick a property out of the MLS and call / e-mail for additional information - call a national discount brokerage and call a local SFAR Realtor. I’ll put my money where my mouth is - you will hear back from a quality SF Realtor in under 3-5 hours. You will hear back from a national brokerage in 2-3 days. Doesn’t seem like a big deal — it is in this marketplace. Ask specific questions about the unit / neighborhood — see who has better insight / advice and information.
I love elements of both of these companies by the way. I’m a firm believer in empowering the buyer and seller with all the information we have readily available to us as Realtors - I also like some of the web tools and mapping that they offer. As for real time information / insight and advice - I’ll take the Realtor challenge anyday.
Chris - I hear ya. I’m familiar with some of the issues some local MLS Boards have with the discount players. As mentioned above - I’m all for allowing the information to be dissemeniated by all players regardless of what they charge — with one exception. Become a member of the local Board of Real Estate. There are some real estate blogs out there ….which will remain nameless…. that are offering information to the public that they don’t have the right to display. I pay a chunk of money every year to have access to the MLS database — if you intend to showcase your knowledge base and share data, pay the monthly and annual fees to our Board. This money assists the local community in a ton of ways as the Association does a great job of giving back.
It’s a separate discussion; but the full MLS should be available to consumer on a subscription basis.
Well, let’s start at the very top. Lereah! “Why the Real Estate Boom Will Not Bust” is simply a work of art. And Yun is appearing to be just about as bad. How many months in a row will they call bottom? We’re at 9 and counting. (Do you suppose Yun will catch on eventually?) The NAR monkeys with end-of-month graphs, revising downward a weeks later every downward-trending graph that I’ve seen published in the press ends with a hopeful uptick. Also, remember earlier this year when the NAR was cheering “sales are up 4%” while YOY was 14% down? The NAR knows that YOY is the only reasonable way to compare sales numbers, yet they kept advertising MOM. That’s called lying.
And what about the MLS? Why does this supposedly professional service look so much like Craigslist? You’re about to make $22,000 commission, can’t you at least learn to spell and type in lower case? I love seeing “Instant Equity! Won’t Last!” on listings with hundreds of days on market. And what happened to the words “Condo” and “TIC”? Why are realtors are now calling everything a “HOME”? Are you all hoping that prospective buyers will call asking for clarification? If it’s a TIC, just call it a TIC in the listing! Stop wasting my time.
(as an aside, please your fellow NAR-member to quit trolling for calls by listing preposterous properties on Craigslist. “I’m sorry, that property is already in contract, but I have some similar one that I’d like to show you.” In contract? Public record shows that escrow closed 8 months ago! That’s happened to me twice. That’s flat out lying, but it seems to be pretty common.)
Finally, let’s talk local. Why do Realtors all want to drive me in their expensive cars to view properties. Is it just so they can listen to themselves gush about how wonderful it is? Has a Realtor ever walked into a place and told his client “wow, this dump ain’t worth the price! Let’s keep looking.” (I’ve seen around 20 properties with Realtors, many of them dumps, and this has not come close to happening even once). No, every time you walk through the front door, you Realtors start glowing about how wonderful the countertops are knowing FULL WELL that your buyer would be getting ripped off if he bought. I think most of you started your careers with pretty good consciences but the extra $3500 from upselling your buyers eventually becomes a little more compelling.
If you’re a buyer, never ever trust your Realtor. His interests are not aligned with yours. If the industry wants to make improvements, this is where to start. Why not incentivize Realtors to find their buyers the best deal on a property instead of the most expensive property possible?
In two years, when the market finally bottoms, I’ll look to buy again. However, I’ve absolutely had it with the preposterous amount of spin that comes from the NAR and Realtors(R). The sooner you guys go the way of the travel agent the better. (Good travel agents still exist and earn their wages. However, because the industry no longer has a monopoly on airline tickets, the shady bottom feeders have moved elsewhere (probably become mortgage brokers). Once the A-holes have all moved on, that’s when I’ll start trusting Realtors again. Until then, I’m sorry to say, the vast majority of you guys are A-holes.
In my experience, anyway.
My favorite real estate slogan comes from a Zephyr agent’s ad when he mentions its a waste to rent. I wonder did he use the buy vs. rent calculator that was posted a few days ago? Its true, the perception of realtors is the same as a used car salesman. Of course there’s a few good/great agents out there that deserves everything they get.
Honestly, its time for a company like Redfin to get in. For all the realtors out there, I have a question for you? Would you show your clients a property if the comission was reduced????
Couple quick thoughts though:
1. It’s in a Realtors best interest to find a buyer the best possible “deal” out there — that seems fairly obvious to me - you want this individual to enjoy their living space and ultimately sell the home with you down the road / refer you to other people / etc. I’ve walked into countless homes with buyers and told them the property was over priced. Not sure why the general public seems to think the quality Realtors are so short sighted that we’d want to push someone into buying an overpriced property for 1 commission or as you say the “3500 upswing” when a job done well could result in many more deals.
2. I agree that posting “fake” listings on Craigslist or any other website in an effort to attract phone calls and potential leads is both inapropriate, sleezy and it’s a violation of Code of Ethics. Is it done - constantly - but not by the majority of the members of the SFAR.
3. The issue of showing a property based on commission is a joke to me. I’ve helped my clients purchase a for sale by owner property and made ZERO money on the deal. When these clients go to sell their unit, I’m certain they will seriously consider selling it with me. It’s no different than any other business- the goal is to establish a relationship that lasts years - not weeks. Goes back to the first point - if you do quality work for a client, you will get repeat business and referrals from that client.
There are a-holes in the industry — but show me an industry that doesn’t have people who take advantage of the system and give it a bad name. Lawyers? Dr’s? Car Dealers? Financial Advisors?
This is good stuff. Where are the other Realtors? Isn’t anyone else willing to stick their neck out like Greg?
To answer anon 16:41, “would you show your clients a property if the commission was reduced?” Yes
Eddy,
We’ll do a different post for your MLS questions tomorrow.
SB,
Good call on the “Craigslist” catch, and lack of the use of the word Condo. For the record, I drive a beat up old 1997 VW Golf. I spend more money on surfboards and bicycles than I do cars. Is it the Sprite commercial that said, “Image is nothing, thirst is everything?” I tend to modify that saying quite often. The vast majority of us (at least in my circle) are not a-holes, but I appreciate your honesty. That’s not to say I don’t know of a few. But they’d be a-holes if they were buddhist monks. It’s just the way some people are.
It seems a lot of the animosity stems from the Mother Ship…NAR, and what comes out of there. I can’t help with that, just like I couldn’t help get Al Gore into office. Some things are out of our control.
I thank everyone who is contributing, keep it coming!
alex
Interesting discussion. I’ve always wanted to expound my thoughts on realtors.
A-holes exist in every walk of life. So, I don’t buy the fact that all realtors are a-holes.
We have dealt with a total of 4 realtors in the past 5 years. Only one of them has been truly amazing and helped us efficiently sell our place, just in time, down in So Cal.
The most recent one we are working in with in SF has an uncanny ability to show us the highest comps available in the neighborhood, when we are in the process of making an offer on a property. Why would someone do that ? Why not show us the lower comps too, so we can make our own decision on how much we would like to offer?
Isn’t it all about getting the most out of every transaction - client be damned ? And then there is the sense of false urgency that is created. That is clearly akin to used car salesmen (or women). If we get outbid on a property, it is not the end of the world !
Also, all this grandstanding on this blog about these properties in Pac Heights, Presidio Heights and my neighborhood - Noe, that sell within days. There are people in this city who have tons of money, and they will always be around, and they will continue to buy trophy properties on Vallejo and Jackson and Sacramento. They don’t care about the state of the market, much less mortgages, et al. These are not representative of the majority of properties being sold in SF.
We all love the Stalefish list. Let’s have some balance, by featuring properties that are still on the market, more regularly.
[Editor's note: Diablo, there are ways for your Realtor to send you all the comps and give you complete access to MLS. Tell your Realtor to either send you the sfnewsletter (my other company...yes that is a plug), and/or set you up on MLS to receive all the comps. If they're not doing that, they should. ]
This is the type of structure that I would like to see - and one that I think would lead to more people believing that realtors are not all a$$holes:
Seller’s agent receives 2-3% (or somewhere around that)
Buyer’s agent receives flat amount based on Region - in this area, I would say somewhere in the $4-6,000 range.
If the agent represents both, they get the percentage plus the flat fee.
All of my bad experiences with Realtors have been on the buying side, where I did all of the work in finding the place (or at least a very large part) and then my Realtor got paid 20k!
On a side note - about five years ago, my wife (who is Catelonian) and I sold our place in Barcelona for around 900k USD. The TOTAL commission (one agent represented both us and the buyer) was about 20k - and he did an EXCELLENT job (got us a quick buyer 10k more than an identical unit two floors above ours in better shape that sold two days prior to ours) and was considered somewhat “expensive”.
Greg, I’m very glad that you don’t go for the upsell. In my experience, however, most of your colleagues do (especially in the Central Valley — the three Realtors my brother went through were simply awful).
I agree that there must be Realtors out there who think longer term. It’s just that they are very, very hard to find. If the commission structure were changed so that there wasn’t such an immediate incentive to upsell, I think this would really help. Realtors would then be more interested in working for the buyer rather than working for the close. Even the short-sighted ones.
I wish more clients were like you, Chris. A lot of buyers take a lot of time, and so a lot of agents won’t deal with buyers. Sometimes an agent like me, who works with a lot of buyers — and by the way, I makes nowhere near $200,000 per transaction, thank you very much — ends up spending months showing properties to a client, who eventually decides not to buy anything. Or one shows a property, and only finds out later that “My sister has a real estate license, so she’s going to write the offer.” Other times it just takes one showing, and the whole thing goes quickly, and it makes up for folks who take more time. You’re the guy who makes up for all the un-easy clients, so thank you for that!
But the question was — Why are Realtors so arrogant and such assholes? I’ve asked the same question, myself! There ARE a lot of arrogant asshole agents — and they seem to all work in the same offices. Some offices seem to breed more difficult agents than others. And those agents end up with bad reputations in the community. It would be fun if TFS did a poll on the most difficult, but we’d probably all get sued!
Damion - I never said $200,000 per transaction, BTW
“It’s always a good time to buy, or sell!” That is the favorite realtor quote. And why not? Realtors are paid on transactions.
The realtors I’ve come across have been very nice and professional. They could have easily NOT given me the time of day walking into multi-million dollar homes, but the large majority have been very courteous and helpful.
I do believe realtors are overpaid given the surge in property prices. There should be a more flat fee structure i.e. $10,000 for under $1mil, $15,000 for 1-2 mil etc. With such little inventory, i’m sure realtors would be willing to agree to this type of structure.
Don’t generalize. It isn’t good practice.
Now, about those wagers on 1771 North Point?! 4.65 mil… anybody else??!! REmember when we were guessing it wouldn’t list for over $3 or $3.5 mil? lol Blows 3221 OCtavia’s 3.7 mil selling price out of the water!
Another note… I venture to say most who hate realtors are renters, or unsuccessful buyers. Anybody care to prove me wrong? B/c as a buyer, if you buy your place, you’re reliefed and happy. If you sell your place using your realtor, you’re pretty happy too generally.
The only people who are bitter are those who come away empty handed.
(sorry for the dual post)
Alex, I feel that the NAR is casting a dark cloud over all Realtors, even the good ones. Their chief economists spin the numbers to within a hairsbreadth of outright lying in an attempt (I assume) to maximize immediate sales. Talk about short sighted! Why not just provide the best, most unbiased information they can and allow buyers and sellers to make their own educated decisions?
You pay your dues. I don’t see why you feel that you can’t control what comes out of the mother ship. If enough Realtors complain, I bet change would come quick. Until then, however, I can only assume that the vast majority of Realtors agree with what the NAR says and their motivations for saying it.
I am a Marin County agent. This is a great post and very informative. As I often say- not all real estate agents are created equal. Some are honest, some are not. Some are great, some are not. This is true of all professions.
I agree with SB that the MLS should not have misspellings and realtors should be honest and up front in their advertising. If a property is sold, move on agents! Craigslist should be for current, active listings.
SB- I am an agent who walks into properties all the time and I say- what a dump. I preview properties for my buyers and tell them- don’t bother coming out -nothing worthwhile to see this week. When I walk my buyers through properties, I point out all of the negatives as well as the positives. Because I see so many houses, I can often see things my buyers don’t- and often they aren’t good. Sometimes my buyers get emotional and want to write offers on things that I know are a bad investment and I will tell them so. I talk myself out of commissions all the time. I am incented to find my buyers the best deal and the best investments because I want them to tell everyone they know how honest and qualified I am. I know some bad agents who I would never trust, but I also know many very honest, intelligent and quality agents who work very, very hard for their clients and deserve every penny they make.
Real estate is extremely easy to get into. There absolutely needs to be more requirements to enter the field. It drives me crazy that someone can take a few classes, pass a test and call themselves a real estate agent. Until the system changes, buyers and sellers should take the time to interview the agent they hire to find the best one for them- they should check their qualifications and references. I can’t tell you how many times I hear from buyers that they walked into an open house, met an agent and “it just happened” - they wrote an offer with that agent after knowing them for a total of about 10 minutes. Hmmm. Check the references and get recommendations from friends. You might be surprised to find a great agent who works hard and puts their clients needs ahead of their own every time. If you don’t trust your agent- don’t hire them, find someone else you can trust. Buying and selling real estate is too big of deal to work with someone you don’t trust.
On Diablo’s false sense of urgency comment- many buyers do feel like it is the end of the world if they get outbid. Buying a house can be very emotional. When buyers get emotional, they often overpay. I am sure there are agents who push their clients to make a move today so they don’t lose it- but sometimes there is a genuine need to do so- particularly if a client isn’t willing to lose the house. It should be the buyer’s choice- not the agent’s.
And Damion- you are right. There are many, many arrogant agents and it stinks when we have to work with them. (I get so tired of “I am #1” ads! )
Sadly, I have to agree 100% with sb’s post. To say that you have no control over NAR actions is a copout…plain and simple. And they are the primary reason that people feel most Realtors are a$$holes. At best, most of their actions are disingenuous, at worst - flat out lies.
Dual post all you want. Not a problem at all. The whole point with this post was to see what kind of sentiment was out there. We’re seeing that and opening up a whole bunch of other topics to discuss, and I think it is great. It’d be nice if NAR were reading this.
Everyone has their side of the story. It’s no different than any other profession. When I was losing my shirt with mutual funds (money I should have used to buy another rental in the then searing hot AZ market), my broker kept telling me, “you’re up YOY”. (He was real arrogant, but not an a$$hole.) But he couldn’t explain how my $54k, turned into $40k in two years, and I sure as hell couldn’t figure it out. I sold all that, and bought some property in NC, which are actually doing pretty well.
I’m trying, with this blog, and my other business to really try to cut to the truth of the market. Provide that “unbiased information”. I’m always riding the media and NAR and other blogs to take a close look at SF, and not the Bay Area, and sure as hell not CA. The good thing about what NAR is pumping out, is that it, like most national housing reports, doesn’t apply to SF…but that is a different post altogether, and I just went totally off-topic, but c’est la vie…at least I know I’m not an a$$hole.
Chris,
I, as one individual person with three businesses, wife, and kids, do not have the time, energy or desire to take it to NAR. I do have the time, energy and desire to help my clients, my readers of this blog, the members of the Stammtisch, and those that are in this circle to cut through the clutter and rubbish that comes out. Beyond that, I’d rather be outside doing something active. I could, I suppose, submit this chain to NAR or SFAR and see what happens. That much I can do. Beyond that, I’m not that kind of person to pursue something like that on a larger scale. No copping out here. Now if you’ll all excuse me, I have a newsletter to write.
alex
p.s. Just read Ginger’s comments…welcome and thanks for chiming in!
alex,
I didn’t mean to suggest that you “take them on” or something like that. I just feel that the “I can’t help with that” comment that you made before is a little bit of a copout. I don’t expect you to drop everything and create a huge deal out of it, but little things (like you mentioned) would help. If hundreds of Realtors did little things, a lot could change. The unwillingness of most Realtors to do anything is to me an implied acceptance of NAR tactics. If no Realtors tell them that they don’t agree with their tactics, why would they ever change?
[Editor's note: I understand, and thanks for clarifying. I plan on forwarding this post, and possibly getting another discussion going in the future with regards to NAR...]
I suspect that boom is correct on the large majority of vocal critics are renters or scorned under bidders….. but that doesn’t take away from the fact that there is a general disdain for the R.’s out there that ARE in it for the quick buck. I like the idea of a flat fee for home price ranges, but this is the USA and its a free market. And Realtors are just playing by the rules that currently exist. I also think that the current model will change in the next 10 years as technology and the tech savvyness of the buyers evolve.
I do agree that even the most pro-buyer agents are generally not your advocate once you decide that you are interested in a property. There are a lot of Realtors that will patiently work with you for weeks/months/years, but the second you decide that you like a property… you and your buyers agent have different motives. Your goal is to get the property at the best price… the agent’s goal is to get you to buy the property. But then again, that’s why your working with an agent so that they will help you buy a property. A lot of psychology goes into buying a place and rarely will a successful winner feel bad that they ‘won’ the house. it’s just psychology. You jusr have have to know that at a certain point your agent is committed to getting you in the house and make decisions that you can live with (and afford).
Alex, I think you owe JT a note of thanks!
[Editor's note: Speaking of JT...oddly absent from this discussion. I'd send him/her a note, but the email was bogus. Oh well, we'll take the glory.]
And boom…. why you so obsessed with north point?
And Boom, why you so obsessed with North Pointe?
Eddy - Not obsessed, just would like to hear other estimates of the price. If North Point sells for over $4 million, this will be the new record high for a SFH row house in The Marina which is not on Marina Blvd., or facing the Palace i.e. a “typical” but super done up row house.
2 years ago, the most we were talking about was $2.7 million.
I was kidding…. as I’m the one that keeps posting about it (too). I think there is no doubt that it will go for above 4M. It’s a pretty sick house and despite some geographical issues; its one of the nicest houses I’ve been through. Contractors in the Marina better start preparing for a flood of calls!
]
[Editor's note: You guys ought to continue this conversation about North Point over here.
Here’s the architect’s POV:
We’re hired by a client to design a $1M house (it makes the math easy). We meet w/that client (usually after a lot of marketing costs, interviews, etc.), hire a team of consultants (structural, mechanical, plumbing, electrical, landscape, etc. - not to mention our in-house staff). We spend 3 months conceptualizing the design, another 3 or 4 documenting the design for construction, nurturing the client literally every step of the way. We shepherd the project through the planning and building departments (which is sort of like beating yourself over the head w/a hammer), arrange for and interview contractors (if there’s any available), observe the construction for another year (losing what little hair we had left), and often help the owners pick furnishings, hang art, arrange furniture, etc…
And then, after this 18 to 24 month period (or longer), the first time it rains, usually at 2AM, we get the call when the window leaks. And we usually get sued.
All this for, say, a 10% fee, of which we might get 75% (after paying consultants). $75K. Then they turn around and sell the place two years later for $1.5M (because it’s SF, and the design rocks, it sells immediately). The realtors split 6% ($90K), or more, for what, one month of work?!! And the Owner pays for the staging…
Oh, and by the way, in order to even call ourselves Architects, we spent at least five years in undergrad, and often a year, or more, in an esteemed ($$) graduate school. Interned for a number of years before we started taking the architectural exams (9 sections - a process that usually takes about three to four years). Then, after an oral exam administered by fellow architects making sure we’re worthy, we’re eventually licensed!
Nice.
Good help from Curbed on this topic:
http://sf.curbed.com/archives/2007/06/29/nar_lawrence_yun_partly_cloudy.php
I dislike real estate agents because I don’t trust them. I have numerous examples were agents (especially selling agents) tell falsehoods.
Case in point 1: I attended an open house recently where a pest report had already been completed. I asked what the report found and the selling agent said $20K in damage. I later read the report: $28K in damage. That’s 40% off.
Case in point 2: A house I was interested in had tenants. I was interested in performing an OMI. The selling agent said that there were three people living there: mother, father, and minor son. Wrong. The selling agent later told my agent that there was the mother, ADULT son (who was disabled), adult daughter, and the daughter’s children. That’s quite a different deal.
You don’t need to lie to make a sale. Don’t misrepresent your properties.
AnonArchitect, further - your commission is based upon the construction price, whereas the realtors is based upon the total property value. Given that the land cost represents at least 30-40% of the total project cost (if not more) the 10% (+/-) the architect charges is actually more like the realtors 6% commission on the property price. . . . . . So. . . . . . the comparison ($/level of service) is worse than you feared
Just saying, is all.
Not saying that realtors don’t have their place, nor that there are not many good eggs; but there is most certainly a disparity between their commission structure and level of risk and service when compared to other professionals engaged in the real estate and construction realm. IMHO it’s the ‘perception’ that Realtors get paid a lot of money for not doing that much that leads people to notice that they also take calls loudly and at inopportune moments. Just kidding!!
More curious to me is that the market has not ironed the money wrinkle out of the equation. As noted by previous posters the barriers to entry to become a realtor are not that high and there has been a flood of people joining the game. It seems like it should follow that the commissions would fall rapidly. Maybe to date that was offset by a robust market, lots of volume and rising prices. . . . . .
I agree with Greg that to an extent San Francisco is an unusual market (though I am sure we are all tired of hearing that) and so I believe there will remain a niche in this city for great realtors. . . . . But I have to wonder if elsewhere in the country, the likes of redfin and zip might reach a tipping point, due to their low cost structure in a down market, and truly redefine the national market.
There’s a sayings that you can’t please all the people all the time, or be all things to all people. Some Realtors (especially those in other areas like Tahoe or Hawaii) are terrible at communication. You would like them because they RARELY use their phones! People in San Francisco are lucky to have so many great agents who can communicate!
Besides, the fact that we are constantly on our phones is by request (no, make that by demand) of our clients to be available no matter where we are. Believe me, we would rather be somewhere else and doing something else sometimes. But I am not one to take calls in public places unless there is absolutely no other way to do it. In my car I use a hands free device for just the reasons you describe. And your seeming annoyance that Realtors jump when the phone rings only shows that you have not lost a deal by the inability of a client to reach you at that particular moment. Real estate is a very emotional endeavor. And try going a few months without a commission because you refused to pick up the ringing phone. Then you might understand.
Most Realtors get into real estate because we love it. That’s why I did. And there is a lot of knowledge required to counsel our buyers and sellers before we can choose a price to offer for a buyers or make suggestions on how to get the best sales price on a listing for our sellers.
Having been in the business for over 35 years, I am quite familiar with many areas of the City and know most of the buildings, even without seeing them again. And we lose more deals than we make, so the hours we put in is certainly not reflected in the seemingly high commissions.
As I tell my clients, I only work half days… that’s 12 hours a day. I have people calling me early in the morning and often work late into the night to try and help people purchase their dream homes. If that makes me a bad person in some people’s eyes, then that’s how it goes.
Janis Stone
For all of the realtors out there, tell me why should realtors get 6% on a 2 million dollar home when as an architect my fee for the drawings and construction obersvation would be about $55,000. (I know your fee is split, but that is still more than my take with weeks and weeks of work. As for office costs, insurance , etc. , I have to carry those costs also)
It’s no longer correct to say “why are Realtors(R) such arrogant a-holes” anymore… From the looks of http://www.realtor.com/ the correct phrase is “why are REALTORS(R) such arrogant…” DOCTORS(R), LAWYERS(R) and ARCHITECTS(R) don’t seem to have this sort of stigma… I wonder why REALTORS(R) do!
]
[Editor's note: SB, can you fill in that blank for us? We'd all appreciate it. I'll make sure it gets past the spam filter.
I’m not quite sure what blank I left unfilled… Let me try again.
It just seems strange to me that lawyers go to school for 7 years and are happy to be called lawyers. Same for architects and (I think) every other profession out there. On http://realtor.com and affiliated sites, however, it’s clear that REALTORS® want their spelling in shouting caps with a restricted copyright attached. Doesn’t this seem weird to you? All caps makes my eyes tired.
I’ll admit that this is offtopic since it offers no evidence as to whether REALTORS® are a-holes or not. Feel free to ignore.
[Editor's note: Ahhh. Got it. It simply wasn't clear, but now I see. I believe, I'm probably wrong, it can be in lower case with the (R) as well. Don't pay much attention to it really.]
As a resident of a Hot Market Neighborhood (HMN) I’d like to chime in. It’s all about parking. Every Tuesday, realtors swarm in and park in every driveway within site. If the house for sale is within half a block from me, I can pretty much forget getting in or out of my garage.
Contrast that with the anxious home buyers who have to see as many houses as they can on the weekend. They seem to be able to park without blocking driveways or impeding traffic flow unreasonably.
So what’ the difference? Apathy.
At least the buyers recognize that they may have to live around the people they are inconveniencing.
Wow!! A heated discussion.
It seems like most think Realtors are overpaid.
A reality check about our very challenging profession: we’re always “on call”, we work most weekends & evenings, we work more than 50 hours a week; 50% of our commissions go to our company-from the remaining 50% we pay association dues, marketing expenses, insurance (E & O, healthcare), retirement, savings (to get us through those 3+months in between commissions); hopefully we’re married or with a partner who has a steady income, don’t have kids, and can quickly cut expenses when needed since it’s a “feast or famine” business at times & hopefully, we aren’t erroneously sued by a disgruntled buyer.
Our fault if you didn’t know where the commission goes. Good Realtors make the profession look easy-as we should, since we are the “shock absorbers” for our clients, here to absorb all the bumps that go along with a purchase or sale so that their experience is as stress-free as possible.
If we’re committed to being in this business, it’s not for the “quick” buck (which is far from quick) but for the gratification of helping a client enter this challenging market.
I’m in agreement, the standards need to be raised-it’s too easy to become licensed but there is consolation in that 70% of new agents drop out after the first year of being licensed. But, 10% of agents are doing 90% of the business-a tough ceiling to break. That also means, you, the consumer, need to do your homework in seeking out a full-time, experienced, professional, ethical Realtor.
As to the topic of arrogant R’s, yes, they’re out there and it’s not fun working on a sale with them but in the interest of “getting the job done”, it’s a 4-6 week test of endurance.
Here’s a thought on the payment of realtors:
The amount of your 6% commission has doubled/tripled due to market prices increasing within about a 5 year span. You are getting paid 2 to 3 times what you did before (where, in the Bay Area, prices were above average to start with). Are you suddenly doing 2 or 3 times the work for this money?
What other profession has had this luxury? I’ve never sat back and doubled my salary in 5 years without working for that increase.
I’ve been in real estate for 25 years and always the business has been 50% good people and 50% losers. It’s just that the stories about the losers get spread like wildfire, like any juicy morsel about a lowlife scumbag.
Case in point. I am a mortgage broker. Client recently made an offer for, let’s say, $1,500,000. Appraisal came in at $1,400,000. Client could still have closed on the loan with no change whatsoever: same rate, same amount, etc. because their downpayment was substantial, However the comps did not support the $1.5M price.
Here’s where the a$$hold realtor stories are born. Not only does the listing agent berate me (I’m the top broker in my town: you guys dont know what you’re doing…I have backup offers…people ready to close) and my appraiser (highly qualified guy with decades of experiece) but, get this, buyer’s agent also does the same.
The agent supposedly looking out for client’s interest is not only verbally abusive (perhaps she spent her commission already) but is trying to figure out why we can’t get the appraisal to come in higher so she can convince her clients they’re not overpaying.
Excellent a$$hole realtor story that I will tell for years to come.
As I read the comments here (especially the one from Janis), I’m thinking of two things:
1. Remember years ago during the NBA lockout when several NBA players started to run out of money? In an attempt to gain some public sympathy and force the owner’s hands, the Player’s Union held a press conference when Patrick Ewing dropped his famous quote: “NBA Players may make a lot of money, but they also spend a lot of money.” Of course, after that priceless quote, public opinion swung entirely to the owner’s side from there on out.
2. Muni. Right now, even though I know that all of Muni’s problems are not caused by the drivers, I have a VERY negative opinion of them because they are GUARANTEED pretty good pay regardless of how hard they work. I know that many work hard, but the few bad apples that are protected by the union and rewarded for their laziness shed a bad light on ALL of the employees.
A similar situation exists for realtors. Most of the public has a very negative (and in my opinion, correctly so) opinion of the mothership, NAR. NAR has shown many times that they are unwilling to allow change, innovation, and price competition into the industry. At the same time, we all know some realtor who is a lazy-ass who made a ridiculous amount on some random transaction - under a commission structure GUARANTEED by NAR’s actions. I don’t care how hard some realtors work, it’s the guarantee for crappy/lazy/substandard work that helps me form the “Realtors are assholes” thought. My thought is always: “If these realtors really are working so hard - why do they feel the need to show support for the assholes at the NAR that want to keep the industry in the 18th centruy? If they’re that good, they would rise to the top and make as much money under any pay system…”
http://sfarmls.rapmls.com/scripts/mgrqispi.dll?APPNAME=Sanfrancisco&PRGNAME=MLSPropertyDetail&ARGUMENTS=-N241179273,-N206880,-N,-A,-N9371493
This is why Realtors are shady. The realtor lists this as a 4 bedroom!!!! MEanwhile, when he shows it, the ‘two bedrooms’ down below are being rented, and are NOT connected to the top floor! WTF?!
The top floor is like 1,300sqft. Who the hell pays $1.5 million to live in a 1,300sqft house, with tenats below for $1,300/month, and on the same block as the firestation?
4 bedroom!! lol
Just sold my home in Pennsylvania for 2.5 million, no brokers (relo would have paid $75,000). Saved $150,000 in commissions (paid lawyer $2000)
We’re relocating to SF area and have not hooked up with a broker. My husband (who has been out in SF for over a year) has been to 20 or 30 open houses and I’ve looked at 1000’s of properties on the internet (Zillow, Redfin, Google Street View, brokers websites, Property Shark). I’ve also spent about 3 weeks over the last year and a half out in the SF area driving around looking at houses and areas.
We’re in a good postion to buy, 1.9 million in cash and I am renting back my house in PA for a year, but I can get out of my lease with 30 days notice.
We’ve found a property we like. My husband has viewed it twice at open houses and I’ve talked to the selling broker. (I’m flying out Friday to see the home in person).
Here is what I was able to find about the property on the internet. The following was all news to the listing broker.
I was able to see that the property had a trail easement on the Marin County website and confirm the details about open space around the property. The property also has an easement over another property for assess. The county approval for the original development limits sq ft to 4000 sq ft.
The listing broker also originally told my husband and me that the house has forced hot water radiant heat and no air. I could see vents in the pictures and had asked the broker why there were vents. He called me back to tell me he was wrong and the house was air conditioned and had forced hot air heat with electric radiant.
I noticed an opening in the mudroom ceiling in the pictures and asked if there was a storage space there. The listing broker told me I was mistaken then called me back to say yes there was a storage space over that entire section of the house.
Regarding storage space, the broker recommended we build an illegal storage building (this was before he realized there was a storage attic in the building) since properties aren’t inspected on transfer in unincorporated Marin and most people just built storage buildings without a permit.
I also know what the property sold for in 2003, what it was listed for, and the names of the owners. Actually I can find the listing and sales prices with dates sold and DOM for every property in Marin County.
I can also find the hazard information for every property in Marin on the county website (landslide, liquification, flood) and see an aerial view with the property lines
I certainly did more work than the listing broker and most likely more than a buyers broker if we used one.
We will very likely use Redfin and receive close to $50,000 back at closing if we make an offer on this property.
I hope to have saved close to $200,000 by not using brokers for this relocation.
Polly — Your experience is an interesting one especially since I’m working on a newspaper story about FSBOs in the Bay Area and beyond. I would love to speak with you - if you have a chance please email me at carol@creatingalifeworthliving.com
thanks, Carol
I just succeeded in finding two clients a property. I had been working with them for a year and a half. They had written five or six offers, all of them very lowball. ( I am cool with that. Why not roll the dice?) Nothing even came close to sticking. Their economic muscle also fluctuated over that time … one client went back to school during this period, completely changing their buying power. Ultimately, I got my clients a 475K 2/1 with incredible views, in a very desirable neighborhood. I did this by noticing an anomaly within the system. In my opinion, that is how good deals are had. You have got to be on it. I was. My clients won out — big time — because of it. All told I put in probably 7-8 weeks of work for $9500. You do the math. I think I earned it.
kenny,
You worked on nothing else during this time? All work done by you during this 7-8 weeks was for these clients?
Of course I had other clients. This wasn’t a linear 7-8 weeks. It amounted to 7-8 weeks, all told, I figure. My point is that some of us work really hard, and earn it. Some of us know what we’re doing.
Should I mention the month I spent helping another client who made three lowball offers to no avail? He then decided to rent for 3K a month until further notice? I didn’t care, that’s the profession I’ve chosen. It’s zero-sum. I’m cool with that.
But it isn’t easy. It’s ultra-competitive. We don’t all have access to recent CEO tech hires who absolutely need to buy, in a great neighborhood, quickly. A lot of us work with people just like us. People with restrictive budgets who want to buy something they will be happy with. Guess what? That aint easy to find. It often takes months.
Oh, and by the way, there are a ton of a-holes in this industry. I haven’t been around so many unfriendly people in all my life.
Kenny,
All of us, in just about any business, can tell you a sob story - I spent about 12 weeks of work on an client who promptly went bankrupt and stiffed me for 75% of the bill - it’s just a part of any business.
It’s just a little strange to me that your sob story would be one that equates to around 60-70k a year, indicating that you typically get paid far more per minute of your time on an average transaction. That’s fine, but someone who has one transaction that only made him $9500 for seven to eight weeks of work isn’t going to get much sympathy from most people if it’s known that he typically makes more. That was my point.
That’s cool Chris, point taken. But also factor this: 60-70K a year in SF isn’t much. I’d call it about average, at best. It’s not enough to buy a house with. And certainly what it isn’t is hate-inspiring, or jealousy conducive.
No. To return to the main point, I think that the reason so many realtors seem like jerks is because so many realtors really are total lame-o’s!
‘Cause we aren’t a bunch of richy rich’s. Don’t let the fancy car fool ya.
Fair enough Kenny
And I wasn’t meaning that your salary would be 60-70k, but significantly higher, if your numbers represented a bad 7-8 weeks. No, I don’t have a problem with a good realtor making several times that, so long as they’re not a$$holes…
My experience as a buyer with realty agents has been very good. I have purchased two homes in the Bay Area, one in SF and one in Sonoma. For my first purchase, though I actually found the house myself, the agent was invaluable in helping me to get the purchase in a multiple-offer situation, without over-bidding. In the second case, my agent - who was very aggressive - arranged for me to view the home prior to the open house and to negotiate a preemptive bid - before 40 people showed up for the official open house. I don’t think I would have gotten it otherwise. I would use either agent again.
3 points: First: Realtors do not make money “easily”, it is often incredibly hard work trying to negotiate for ones clients (buyer wants everything for nothing, seller wants everything for nothing). This is particulary so for Commercial real estate transactions. Second: eventhough most clients aren’t necessarily aware of this, the reason for hiring a licensed real estate professional is so that the liability for the real estate transaction falls squarely on the shoulders of the realtor (whether buying or selling). Since there is no statute of limitation on real estate (or the transactions which affect/effect them), hiring a realtor ensures that you won’t be haunted by the sins of your property years after you have forgotten about it. This is the reason that Realtors carry liability insurance (like lawyers, doctors, et. al.). Carrying the responsibility for the liability for life, is one of the reasons that realtors charge what they charge, and deserve their well earned commissions. Like law, a client is always welcome to represent themselves in (this case) the transaction, but like law and a client going to court, “a person who represents themselves (in court or in a real estate transaction) has a fool for a client”. Finally, just like lawyers, just because there are lots of them doesn’t mean that they are all good: the smart and good ones stand out, the rest of them DON’T make any money and cycle out of the profession almost as fast as they got into it. Real Estate is an expensive profession to be involved in, and if you aren’t any good, you’re not going to last.
Kenny:
In my experience, putting in lowball offers only serves to waste both your and your clients time, and time as you know, is a vital commodity in the Real Estate profession. It’s been my experience that, unless a seller is WAY off base about the value of their property (often due to the emotional attachment people place on their property, (and it’s a realtor’s job to inform and educate their clients about the value of a particular property and the reasons for that valuation)), its better to put in an offer that is realistic and can be backed up by observable facts (market conditions, condition of property, location of property etc…). Your story about spending 7 - 8 weeks working with a client are not anything that I haven’t experienced myself either, and serve to illustrate another reason why the money realtors earn isn’t earned “easily”. Additionally, the challenges posed by the current real estate crash in CA should help to separate the cream from the crop.
Cheers!
Rupee, you make a very cogent point about liability. I hope everybody took the time to read that one.
As for “lowball” offers, I hear you. For the most part, at least around here, they are pointless. But opportunities present themselves from time to time even in a crowded marketplace. Right?
I am one of the most cynical people out there when it comes to sales people, but when we moved here 8 years ago, we interviewed three Realtors. One was insulted that we were interviewing her, and the other two were great. We picked the one we thought worked best for us. She was amazing. We wanted more than we could afford, and she educated us on a multi family with rental income to pay the mortgage, something we never would have considered on our own. four years later we were ready to upgrade. She came in, got painters, stagers, carpenters, told us to stand back, this was her job. She got 13 offers over asking, and found us a new home at asking. Frankly, she saved and made us a bunch of money. We know we lucked out, but if you don’t like your realtor, fire them, and get one you like. The good ones more than deserve their commission. (And as an added extra she has become a great friend)
I dont have time to read all of it. but I’ll add a few thoughts.
buying a SFH in san francisco means selling your own life/time/fortune/credit history (even your actual life when you buy a most likely rambler vs a earthquake-resistant house) away for a thing made of wood and plaster that cost 1 million bucks (let’s assume an easy number).
Let’s take another situation. Your wealth is around 2 millions bucks, and your spouse is leaving you for JLo or JT (whichever gender is needed here).
For your divorce, wouldnt you choose the BEST POSSIBLE LAWYER to keep your 1rst million safe, and keep a much as the second million on your bank account?
In the divorce case, there will probably be a correlation between the hourly chinchin that goes in your lawyer’s pocket and the chinchin that stays in your pocket…
Now back to real estate. what is WRONG in my opinion is the flat 6% commission. YES YES YES - there are many agents who DO NOT DESERVE the amount (the most obnoxious are always the most visible guys in any job) - but there are a big bunch of SF Realtors who are worth every single penny of the deal. Any idiot can close a deal - but there are not so many deals that BOTH the seller and the owner are very happy with several months/years later. There is always a party that feel cheated - and of course, not only do you need to protect your assets, but most likely, you need to shield yourself from the idiot-other-agent of the deal .. (I know the situation - our seller’s agent was the laziest of all and I resent her to this day. If I had the choice, my agent would have gotten 5.9%, and she would have gotten 0.1%)
So my point is dont look at what the others are doing. Protect YOUR OWN PERSONAL LIFE AND WEALTH WITH THE BEST POSSIBLE AGENT - and guess what? you do NOT pay extra for an EXCELLENT agent!!!! so you feel your agent was a lazy a* or b* ? it’s your problem, and your choice.. because I can point to you many many many agents you SHOULD have interviewed before choosing one.
How to choose? (I wont give names… but Alex, you have a good spot on my list of prefered agents)
- pick a real estate company that is FOCUSED on your own micro/nano market. As friendly as your realtor friend is, if he’s working at “WP’s B” he’s NOT the agent to buy in the Infinity towers.
- in that company, interview at least 2 agents. Not all agents are reflecting the politics of their own company - but you’re future deal WILL be stamped with the company’s name - for the better, or for the worse. For each agent, ask their portefolio and check that they participated in the closing of a few properties within your OWN nanomarket; and/or ask the trick questions about a couple of recent deals and what they think about them (HINT: use theFrontStep to prepare your exam questions!). A lack of specific knowledge is the end of the interview no matter how much sweete talking and % rebate they offer. ANYBODY claiming that they are able to buy/sell ANY property in san francisco is lying to his/her teeth. Yes they might close the deal - but certainly not as well in your defense as another more appropriate agent (that said, in many company, agents will team up to offer you the specific help if ever needed - like you end up out of your chosen nanomarket but wont change agent). I’m not sure being the buyers’ agent of the maximum overbid of the week is something to brag about…. with money, you can buy any BayView houses at $5M cash - and that’s stupid - and to some extend, it’s a professional fault for the agent. (not sure about the fault of the seller’s agents in that case… because he’s supposed to get the most money for his client - right?)
- then interview the “divas” (most of them are ladies, but there are some great guys too) of your specific nano market. You may not hire them as your agent, but you’ll be most likely meeting them again during an open house. Knowing your enemy is the first step to the victory - and it can be a deal maker if they remember your name while having to choose between 14 offers.
- pick an agent that you will TRUST TO DEATH. Not all agents are competent. But you will eventually find someone that you like, appreciate, respect. Someone you can be stucked in the elevator with for 3 hours (… PG&E rotating black out !) without killing him/her within seconds. . and remember… it’s like a divorce, and a good realtor will be your attorney for many many legal decisions to come - decisions that you will be stuck with for a long time.
- while picking our agent, check that your agent is commited to you in a way that suits you. email vs cell phone, vs face to face meeting etc.
To end my babble, I’d like to answer the original question. “they are NOT!”. No agent on my list of prefered agents is arrogant nor a$$hole nor obnoxious. To be honest, our last deal was made thanks to 2 agents that most of the public will never ever hear about - but that are very known and respected in the Realtors circle… And when my mom met our agent at our housewarming party, she wouldnt believe the “young kid in sandals and shorts who drove a tiny car” was the extremely talented and patient (we visited over 350 houses over 7months!) and competent guy that got us our house.
Last and to be very mean.. the public should start to be serious and check the lies going around. Not all well-talkers are Realtors(R) . PLEASE