for me when it comes down to where you would want to live? for myself i would not involve what i did for work because most of us are stuck inside not enjoying the city as we go about earning that paycheck. Im looking at what is there to do outside of a standard 9-5 and i believe san francisco wins as a whole where nyc has its upsides too…both have great places to eat and drink but nyc has more because the city is more populated..simple econmoics! nightlife isnt for everyone and different folks have a different idea of what a good nightlife really is…for some it can be a whole night in a wine bar or just a run of the mill pub or full blown ear ringing nightclub. Both places have them and nyc wins on closing time at 4-5am but thats about it. See as a whole san francisco has the space you can bike, drive around town which i enjoy on a nice sunny day and just enjoy yourself. Theres nothing can replace going on a date with a girl and picking her up at her place and driving to a movie or to a nice dinner. In nyc its about meeting them at the restaurant in manhattan by way of subway or taxi. What if you wanted to get closer? you cant go back to her place because shes in a one bedroom apartment in east village with 2 other people sleeping in the living room. SF quality of life wins hands down. end of rant!

I enjoyed your article, having recently come back from San Francisco. As a native Philadelphian who lives in New York, I have a pretty neutral view on both places (although I hate New York sports teams).

As far as weather is concerned, you are dead on. SF has the best weather by far. The winter isn’t as bad as you make it out to be, however the summer in NY is unbearable.

As far as coffee is concerned, I can’t really comment…having lived in Paris for a few years, I have to say that the coffee scene in the US is weak, not so much as quality of coffee, but quality of hanging out at the cafe.

As far as outdoors in concerned, I suppose I concede that to San Francisco, although I must say, I’m not much of an outdoorsman. If I’m playing sports, I’m in the ice rink playing hockey. For hockey the East Coast is far superior to the West Coast.

Real estate is outrageous in both places-the 2 most expensive markets in the country-for good reason-the 2 most desirable places to be in the country.

In terms of culture, San Franciso falls far short of New York-there are some interesting items to see in SF, however the museum scene pales in comparison to New York, as does theater (London is the only place that compares to New York). Furthermore, Boston, Philadelphia, and Chicago have more culture than SF. This is a serious flaw of SF.

Diversity is similar, however I give the nod to New York on this one as well.

One item you forgot is geography. New York is 3.5 hours from Boston, 1.5 hours from Phila, 4 hours from Washington, and 6 hours from Montreal…all by car. The 2 hour flight to Chicago is nothing, and the 5.5 hour flight to Paris is similar to the flight to the West Coast. What is the closest major city to SF? LA is a horrible, godforsaken place (I would rather live in Baltimore).

Wine, in and of itself, is a reason to move to San Francisco. My love of Sonomoa pinot noir draws me to SF annually. Healdsburg is a gem. Napa is a bit pretentious, however there are some excellent cabernet sauvignon selections there-if you are a big red meat eater. Outside of France, there is nothing like the California wine country.

As far as food is concerned, San Francisco is a fabulous city. I would even have to say it’s a half notch above my beloved Philadelphia (don’t laugh-if you’ve never been there, Philly runs the gamut from junk food to high-end restaurants, including places where you can bring your wine for no corkage fee). That being said, it doesn’t quite have the variety that New York does. Asian food is better in SF, however European food is better in New York. New American is comparable (Gary Danko and Cyrus are awesome, Michael Mina was disappointing), however it’s a bit better in NY. What stood out to me in San Francisco was the freshness of the produce and ingredients…this surpassed NY for sure.

The biggest shock to me was the friendliness of people in SF-they are nicer in Paris! NY gets such a bad rap for unfriendly people, which couldn’t be more true. People in NY are ‘busy,’ whereas I found people in SF to be genuinely rude. Granted, I only met a small portion, so I could be off on this, however after 5 trips to SF, I find the Parisians to be warmer.

Overall, SF and NY are the 2 best places in the country. I’m drawn to NY b/c my family (and my wife’s family) are in NY and PA-all within 100 miles. I would trade anything to spend summers in SF. Hopefully I’ll be able to retire in SF (or preferably Healdsburg).

This city to city thing is funny though. It’s kind of like, now compare the quadratic formula to a Granny Smith apple.

SF is Brooklyn, without Manhattan. Great town if you are a couple, married, family, have wine for blood, etc.

Single? Unless you are a librarian, WTF are you doing in SF?

i should modify my post — it is a struggle TO RAISE A FAMILY without the high income like $500K in Manhattan. Childcare is expensive. The extra space one wants for their kids is expensive. We’re going to go the public school route, but private school is also really expensive. Really really expensive. and, of course, I’m really mainly talking about an upper middle class sort of made for TV life. obviously people survive on a heck of a lot less and not just people in the projects or in a rent control apartment.

We’re coming over! Throw some shrimp on the barbi will ya? Keep an eye out for my Cousin in the Jazz guitar scene in Brooklyn…Mark Mollica. He’s pretty damn good.

One misconception is that NYC is Manhattan. Sure, Manhattan is the center of things, but 1.8 million people live there vs. 2.5 million in Brooklyn. There’s a lot of good stuff going on in Brooklyn. Sure, Queens also has almost 2.5 million people…I’m not so big on Queens though.

I live in a 3000 square foot Victorian with 6 bedrooms, a private driveway, back yard, deck, flower garden, BBQ, 2 car garage, etc. in a diverse and safe neighborhood in Brooklyn that is 30 minutes from Wall Street on the subway. I paid $850K at the height of the market. Cost-wise, this compares pretty favorably to most of San Francisco. Obvously, the house (well, the land under it really) might be worth $10 million+ in Manhattan. Which goes to show why you can’t just assume Manhattan = NYC. Yes, I’m a former Manhattanite (born and raised) too. It was just too expensive. $850k would have gotten us a cramped 2 bedroom apartment. Manhattan is indeed a great place to live, but it can be a struggle under $500K.

NYC:

-awesome 24hr subways

-unlimited neighborhoods and cultures

-warm, caring good vibe people

-people not as independent as SF (Im still noticing it, NYers are a little more clingy to each other friendwise)

-summer sucks

-people are very clean, smell good, take showers

-people take better care of themselves compared to SF (lookswise)

-sometimes pretentious

-more into image

-seems a little more conservative

-lots of people everywhere

-energetic

-not as hip

-confident

-very attractive women

-inviting

SF:

-more bums per capita

-SHITTY mass transit (i lived in fillmore 3 miles from sfsu and it take me 1 hour to get to school, compared to 125th st in harlenm to 14st unionsq in 20 min on subway, that 100+blocks!)

-trains close at 9pm

-busses lag

-DT and many other areas smell of piss & feces

-also inside the trains/busses

-step out of your house..gonna be asked for change every 10 minutes on the street

-honestly, SF club venues FADE NYC! Sorry, if your a club goer or into independent music, SF scene is great and better than NYC. There are more venues coming and going compared to NYC’s same old venues just getting renamed. BUT, nyc doesnt have that dumb 2am drink limit. So it evens out.

-age demographic is majority 20-late 30s, not too many gray hairs.

-not even close to NYC cultural diversity

-independent

-good food ratio, NY seems to still have too many crap spots mixed in with good spots

-nice weather

-anti image

-anti american

-very european attitude

-conceited

-too into themselves

-takes their time

-dilly dally

-openness to meeting new people

…

Im a little on both sides on this; but, maybe not fair as I am very new to NY. Here are my 2 cents anyways (maybe even a pocket full of change)

Im just reading through a few google comparos b/n the 2 cities, and find many replies entertaining. Much of them are vague generalizations, as well with a few great replies. As stated many times already, comparing SF and NYC is like comparing a cat and a microwave. It also truly depends on the individual’s likes, dislikes, age, culture, background, etc., etc.

So far I find nyc to be overwhelming in just about everything. When I first touched down, I had kind of a denial about nyc – regarding vibe, food, people, etc. (a common trait to SF, where they are bigheaded and too into themselves thinking they are #1 mentality). But, as each day passes and as I get more and more used to this grand megalopolis, the more and more I fall in love with it.

I used to think SF has the best quality food (quality over quantity) than nyc, and every other day I find an equivalent or better place here (not to mention even new introductions to cultural food that is not available in SF (or prolly never will be; ie: west indies, african, latin, jamaican, etc.). Yes, some of my SF faves are Burma Superstar, Bamboo Village, TuLan for soul viet and so on, but I can find it here in nyc too.

I left SF because like someone else mentioned here, I felt it’s “boundaries” quite quickly after the first 2 years. Yes, you can venture outside the city if you like the outdoors, wine country, the burbs, (and farmland valleys lol). But, as aforesaid, that depends on YOU. And Im not really into the burb, desolate areas (as i was raised in them and sick of them). I can already tell that living in nyc even for many years that there will always be a strange and new neighborhood, culture, people and opportunity that will arise. Sorry, but in SF, there is not much to explore as compared to nyc.

Someone also mentioned the unreplicable experiences with crossing the brklyn bridge, etc, etc. Ive done all that in nyc already and it is great. SF also has beautiful things to do like crossing the GG bridge, viewing the city from the lookout on marin, hiking up bernal heights for a skyline view, hiking up twin peaks for a diff angle of the skyline, etc. I’d say I enjoy the SF views a little more as they seem more serene.

Now the People; many people here say SF is cliquey. I totally have to disagree with that as I find nyc people to be just that (maybe I have only had a handful of experiences, so I cannot truly say). SF only contains like 30% natives, everyone else is a transplant or immigrant. This makes for a very open to meeting new people kind of attitude. As where nyc, it seems that they do not like making new friends as often (but still do much more than compared to many other cities, so dont get me wrong)

BUT, at the same time SF people can be quite cold, snooty, snobbish, rude, complain alot, too serious (no humor, very rare for people to be sarcastic). This is a big reason I wanted to leave SF. Although I made many friends in SF, I felt nyc people to be much more open, inviting, hospitable, warm, caring..all while still having the big city attitude.

SF can be very rude towards tourists, non-natives. NYC people are very nice in this regard and ive never heard any shit talking towards tourists. Example I overheard while on a bus: A group/family of german tourists about to board a bus ask the bus driver directions. At the same time a few people sitting next to me sneer, maddog the tourist and speak under their breath “stupid fucking tourists!”. This happens ALL the time. It seems that SF “tries” too hard to have a big-city attitude by being rude, etc. Also, I always see people (hipster kids) spitting on cop cars, kicking cop cars, other rude behavior, etc. I actually dont mind, as Im a young kid at heart too and find it kinda amusing; but, you might not like it.

In contrast, nyc people are super warm amd caring towards tourists needing directions, comforting frazzled tourists/non-natives, nice towards cops, etc. This is what I LOVE about nyc. It feels soo humanistic that SF will NEVER be. But, sometimes, nyc people can be a tad too confident at times and sometimes need to take a deep breathe and think things through without rushing (SF has no problem with this and this is def what I like about SF, they take their time, maybe too much time for an east coaster). I guess Ill just have to get used to nyc’s confident fast ways. When I do, then all the greater.

And someone also said and a replier asked: SF celebrates culture, nyc has alot of culture. I can def see this. NYC no doubt had the most cultural diversity in the US and also celebrates it; but, with SF, when a new culture comes about, SF embraces it with everything it has and welcomes it. As where nyc, it is nothing new to them and is an everyday occurrence so it isnt as “special”. I heard on a photographer documentary, “SF “tries too much to be like europe”, and it does and is also successful at it, especially the snobbish attitude against american patriotism (which i also dont mind one bit, but some will).

I can keep writing my opinions and generalizations, but im getting tired of comparing for now. These are just brief positives and negatives about both.

If you want SF steez, this would be very possible in nyc. Greenpoint and Williamsburg (as well as prospec heights, park slope, etc.) seem very much like SF, architecture, people, chill, vibe, wise. NYC just has everything you want, need or are looking for (well, maybe not the magnificent views of bernal heights or twin peaks, lol

good luck

NYC is all about what you know – it’s about the neighborhoods (Williamsburg, Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, Ft Greene, LES, East Village, West Village, etc), small restaurants that no one visiting would necessarily go to, the boutique shops, etc. I HATED NYC (for many reason mentioned – overcrowding, feeling like a number) when I first moved here but once you find your way, it’s an amazing city. You have everything you need here – and you find your communities.

Interestingly enough, when I recently visited SF in October, I likened it to a mini Manhattan (Union Square/Market St) with Brooklyn being like all the neighborhoods within the city. Brooklyn Heights being like Pacific Heights, Noe Valley being like Park Slope, Bernal Heights like Williamsburg (or what B’burg used to be like before it became ultra popular) and so on and so forth…which I LOVED. Because for me, NYC is all about the community and SF felt the same way.

Yes, we have amazing museums, renowned restaurants, large corporations driving business, but it’s the communities that make up the heart of this city. There are definitely areas I don’t travel to as much (UWS, UES, Tribeca) simply because I don’t necessarily have to so I don’t have much to say about those neighborhoods. I tend to love Brooklyn – seems a little more down to earth. I lived in Manhattan for awhile but couldn’t find a community like I could in Brooklyn. Just my personal experience.

As far as real estate, we pay $3000/month for a 2 BR, 2 1/2 bath, new condo unit on the border of Williamsburg in Greenpoint. Williamsburg is quickly pricing out people – and we make a decent living. We have a son though and needed space. We have 1700 sq ft in Greenpoint for the same price as what 900 would have landed us in Williamsburg. Literally just a street away from the border. And a 1 BR in Williamsburg is going for around 700K.

I have to say that what I miss most about the West coast is the quality of life. I miss hiking, biking, etc – and we’re outdoorsy people. And East coast snowboarding – well, it just sucks. The access to anywhere to go hiking etc, is pretty far. You’re looking at about 45 minutes driving to get ANYWHERE outside of the City and that’s without traffic. Last weekend, it took me an hour just to get to the Holland Tunnel. 9 miles away.

NYC is really about just that, NYC and all that it has to offer. I say that it takes about a year to get yourself fully accustomed to the way of life, subway traveling, exactly where to go for the best food, or where to shop for exotic groceries (like Jackson Heights, Queens for Indian Food) or East Williamsburg for the amazing Italian Bakeries (like Fortunato Brothers).

Regarding coffee, SF may have us beat but there are definitely pockets of good places. Don’t look for them in mid-town or any other touristy area though. They are around though. Trust me.

The San Francisco Bay Area is far more diverse (geographically) than the greater New York area, making for far better weekend getaways. SF is surrounded by greenbelts, a beautiful (but cold water) coast, and plenty of organic farms that provides SF with some of the freshest, healthiest produce. Couple that with the vineyards of Napa, the oyster farms and dairies of western Marin, and the salmon and dungeoness crab that roam our Pacific coast for some good eating. And if you’re adventurous enough, you can even go collect your own abalone! All within an hour or two of the city. Back to the weekend getaways… If you’re willing to go a bit farther, say 3 to 4 hours away, Lake Tahoe, Yosemite, Mendocino, Monterey, are all right there.

As for the city proper, both cities have their shortcomings. Public transportation in San Francisco could definitely improve, but population densitiy is a general requirement for an efficient public transit system (e.g. Tokyo and Hong Kong), as well as other goods and services. From a population density standpoint, I’d say SF is just about perfect for my taste. Enough people to consume/provide a diversity of goods and services, but not so much that it’s always crowded everywhere.

SF and NY are both ethnically diverse, but different. SF has a higher percentage of Asians and Mexicans, while New York has more non-Mexican Hispanics, and more Africans. NY definitely has a far greater variety of South American, Carribean, and African restaurants, something I wish SF had a bit more of.

In any case, this is really a silly comparison, because everybody has different needs/desires. I’ve thought about relocating to NYC temporarily, but have since lost that desire after several subsequent visits. At least people in NYC are more polite than they used to be (maybe it’s my imagination).

Quality of life is definately better in SF! People here care about having a life! It’s not a badge of honor to say you work 15 hour days. In fact, most people in SF would consider you a loser if you bragged about that. In NY, people are so busy trying to “get ahead” and outdo each other it gets to the point they are work-obsessed –too bad there’s no time to enjoy it all the money they make!

Nightlife in SF bites! Clearly if you’re into the club/going out scene NY is WAY better! There’s a ton to choose from, places are open until 4am, it’s a lifestyle of having fun at night. Clubs are completely lame and boring in SF…then again, everything closes by 2am since people are active and want to get up early to do healthy athletic stuff. Here it depends if you’re 20-30 something and want to hook up and go out it’s the place. If you’re settled or not into that scene any more SF is much more relaxed and free time is spent doing healthy endeavors.

Food I think is equal for both although NY has more choice – then again, you can’t beat the wine country within proximity to SF or all the great produce from local farmers

Weather – freeze your ass in the winter(NY), freeze your ass in the summer(SF)…you pick!

Real estate – you definately get more for your $$ in SF – you may pay the same costs up front for an apt, but you have a garage included in that price (yeah you can have a car in sF and it’s not a total nightmare!!!) and don’t have to pay 1000s for doormen(or their tips at the end of the year)…

People – ny there is way more variety and fewer total geeks than SF…I’ve seen so many movie/TV/political/corporate starts walking around the streets of NY …in SF? hmmm… I saw Willie Brown the other day chatting up a girl half his age at Myth restaurant…

Proximity to cool places …SF -Mexico, Hawaii…NY – Europe, Carribbean…you decide

…..so in the end my friends it all adds up to what you’re looking for…I think either way you can’t go wrong!